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EnMasse This place is all that is left.
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| Who should be the (centre) left candidate for mayor in Vancouver next time? |
| Larry Beasley |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| David Cadman |
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23% |
[ 3 ] |
| James Green |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
| Jim Green (oh man, don’t tell me you voted for James Green by mistake) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Jenny Kwan |
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15% |
[ 2 ] |
| Raymond Louie |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
| Tim Louis |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Gregor Robertson |
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30% |
[ 4 ] |
| Ellen Woodsworth |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other |
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15% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 13 |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: Vancouver civic election |
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Here in Vancouver, we like to start predicting our next civic elections well in advance. You'd think it was an American presidential campaign or something. So, anyway, the latest buzz is that former "juice king" and current NDP MLA Gregor Robertson could be a compromise mayoral candidate for divided centre-left forces looking to defeat Sam Sullivan, who has proven to be sufficiently flaky that he could be vulnerable to a challenge after just one term.
the Vancouver-Fairview NDP MLA told the Georgia Straight it is "too early" to confirm unequivocally that he will enter the race. | Quote: | Last May, the Straight reported that one Vision Vancouver councillor, Tim Stevenson, spoke highly of Robertson as a possible mayoral candidate for the party. This month, former Vancouver Green party school trustee Andrea Reimer and Green party provincial leadership candidate Damian Kettlewell both told the Straight that they would support Robertson for mayor. ...
In a phone interview, 2005 Vision Vancouver mayoral candidate Jim Green said Robertson is someone his party "would welcome" in a 2008 run. Green, a COPE councillor from 2002 to 2005, lost to NPA Mayor Sam Sullivan by fewer than 4,000 votes.
"He [Robertson] is the kind of person we would welcome, I am sure," Green told the Straight. "He works in his constituency very hard; he brings up issues like Cambie Street and the Canada Line when other people are avoiding it like the plague. So I am quite impressed with what I see." ...
Robertson attended the inaugural Vision AGM on October 16, 2006, and joined other Vancouver-based provincial NDP colleagues at the COPE annual dinner on July 5, prompting COPE park commissioner Spencer Herbert to call him a "bridge builder".
"I like the work he has done on rental housing and trying to push a moratorium on demolition," Herbert said by phone. "It's early days, and who knows what can happen? If COPE and Vision can figure out what they are doing, he very well could be a viable candidate."
On May 17, 2005, Robertson defeated favoured B.C. Liberal candidate Virginia Greene by 895 votes (13,009 to 12,114)–the narrowest winning margin of any Vancouver NDP MLA. Robertson concedes it was a "tough riding to win".
Robertson added that another issue on his mind is a review of provincial constituencies by a three-person B.C. Electoral Boundaries Commission. Its preliminary report must be submitted to the legislature by Wednesday (August 15).
"What they do in Vancouver is obviously going to be something I eagerly await," Robertson said. "They've got to move tens of thousands of seats [people] out of [Vancouver-] Burrard. If they make Fairview an impossible seat for someone like me to win, then that will obviously affect what I do next."
Added Robertson: "The vacuum of leadership at city hall is the underlying cause of all the speculation and rumours. The mess at the civic level of having a mayor who is not fully engaged is quite debilitating for a city going through such intense growth and heading into unchartered territory with 2010." ...
Former two-term COPE councillor Tim Louis told the Straight the recent withdrawal of Fred Bass – another former COPE councillor – from the 2008 mayoral race is a "loss for Vancouver".
"He is, in my opinion, one of the most principled politicians I have ever met," Louis said of Bass.
When the Straight mentioned Robertson as a potential candidate, Louis deadpanned, "I haven't heard of him. Who is that?
"You certainly need municipal experience to be a mayoral candidate, in my opinion, and [COPE councillor] David Cadman would be such an individual," Louis added. | I probably disagree with Tim Louis on more things than I agree with him about, but I have to say he has a point here. Larry Campbell was a disaster as mayor partly because he didn't really have a working knowledge of local politics before he was elected. On the other hand, Robertson has displayed familiarity with some local issues as MLA, which Jim Green alludes to in the article above.
So if not Robertson, who else? Admittedly the question of a mayoral candidate can be a bit of a distraction. It should be more of a priority to ensure that the NPA loses its one-seat council majority, but it would help in that respect if the centre-left has a leader who a large number of people can rally behind. Arguably that was a problem last time, although at least the vote wasn’t split. And Sullivan is a dangerous politician, not so much in the sense of being a brilliant right-wing tactician, but more in the sense of breaking things as he flails around.
Here’s a few names that have been suggested (including Robertson’s), and a couple that haven’t that I’ve thrown into the mix:
Larry Beasley: Recently retired co-director of city planning. Played a large role in the form of the city’s development over the last twenty years, for good and for bad. No experience running for elected office.
David Cadman: Mayoral candidate for a COPE / Green slate in ’99. Currently in his second term on council, where he’s the only COPE councilor. Previously led campaigns on urban environmental issues for the non-profit group SPEC, and was active in the municipal employees’ union before that. Has shown an ability to bridge the differences between COPE and Vision Vancouver, and is reasonably well-respected by Vision.
James Green: I was just kidding. Although he has said he’s running again. This guy makes Sullivan look practically sane.
Jim Green: Veteran Downtown Eastside community activist. Mayoral candidate for a COPE / Civic NDP slate in ’90, and for Vision Vancouver in ’05 after serving one term on council. Despite having antagonized many on the left after the COPE-Vision split, he still lost by a fairly narrow margin, and it’ll never be known for sure whether James Green’s name on the ballot affected the outcome of the race. Green is Vancouver’s Al Gore – a candidate who seemed underwhelming at the time, but who in hindsight would probably been a competent and cautiously progressive leader, in sharp contrast to the dangerous clown who ended up winning under dubious circumstances.
Jenny Kwan: The lone opposition councilor from ’93 to ’96, and a provincial MLA since then, serving in a number of cabinet posts including municipal affairs minister. Kwan is arguably stronger on paper than on person, never having emerged as much of a distinct political presence, although it would certainly be good to have a mayor with a smaller ego than Sam Sullivan’s or Larry Campbell’s, and Kwan does deserve credit for holding Gordon Campbell’s feet to the fire as part of a two-person opposition along with Joy Macphail for three years.
Raymond Louie: Union organizer currently in his second term on council with Vision Vancouver. Young, articulate. If he doesn’t run for mayor this time around, he’s still a likely candidate for some point in the future.
Tim Louis: Two-term councilor who was defeated in ’05. Lawyer; known for wearing Che Guevara T-shirts. Was at the centre of the split within COPE that led to mayor Larry Campbell and three other COPE councilors leaving the party to start their own. A lot of it had to do with the clash of Campbell and Louis’ equally prickly personalities, although there was an ideological division as well, Campbell seeing himself as a moderate and Louis seeing himself as an uncompromising socialist. With Louis’ ally Fred Bass having changed his mind and decided not to run for mayor, Louis could decide to go for the job himself. He’s probably self-aware enough to realize that he could only ever play the spoiler, but he might be okay with that.
Gregor Robertson: Rookie NDP MLA. Previously ran Happy Planet, a juice company with a reputation for being eco-friendly. Seen as the new moderate face of the NDP, and a possible candidate for provincial leader at some point, although how much of this is hype isn’t clear. Recently started a campaign to obtain compensation for Cambie Street business owners affected by the cut-and-cover construction of a subway line along the street. Has also spoken out against the NPA’s slashing of the social-housing component for the Southeast False Creek development.
Ellen Woodsworth: Served one term on council before being defeated in ’05. Stayed with COPE, but along with Cadman, tried to strike a more conciliatory tone. Recently organized a slate that won control of COPE from Louis’ more militant faction, potentially paving the way for greater cooperation with Vision, although almost certainly short of reuniting the two parties into one. Had a reputation for being one of the more low-key councilors, but as with Kwan, that’s not necessarily a drawback. Veteran activist, particularly on women’s and gay / lesbian / bisexual / transgendered issues.
Personally, my first choice would be Cadman. Although there’s still probably some antipathy from Vision Vancouver, he seems to be able to work with them. And COPE would have a tougher time supporting someone who’s seen as Vision’s candidate rather than a compromise candidate. For similar reasons, Woodsworth would be my third choice. She appears to have considerable leadership skills, but lacks Cadman’s public profile. I’ve never heard her discussed as a possible mayoral candidate, which I think is a reflection of just how masculine Vancouver’s political culture still is, as a man with her experience would get more attention than she’s received. (You could say the same of Kwan.)
I could probably support Jim Green if he ran again. Time has mellowed my concern that he was too closely aligned with Larry Campbell, and I suspect it has for a lot of other people, although there’s still a considerable number of people on the left who would never vote for him again. While Louie also took Campbell’s side in the split with COPE, he has a better chance of overcoming negative perceptions than Green does. Louie would probably be my second choice, and Green the fourth.
Robertson is a bit of an unknown. He might be much closer attitudinally to Vision than to COPE, which could create some tension. Kwan certainly has political experience including at the local level, but I don’t know what either of them would be like leading a team. Both Robertson and Kwan may be reluctant to leave provincial politics in any event. Robertson’s name has been tossed around, while Kwan’s hasn’t.
Beasley’s name has been raised along with a few others (like condo marketer Bob Rennie) as sort of blue-sky ideas. While he has a knowledge of the city of Vancouver paralleled by few, that doesn’t necessarily translate into political savvy, as Larry Campbell demonstrated. And I have no reason to think he would be interested in the job. Still, among the many admirers of his civic-planning legacy is the current mayor, and Sullivan’s EcoDensity initiative is a warmed-over pastiche of Beasley’s ideas serving as a rationale for gentrification. Now that could make for an interesting campaign.
Tim Louis would certainly make for an interesting campaign too. If COPE chose to run Louis for mayor, Vision Vancouver would almost definitely run its own candidate as well, and Louis would finish a distant third, but quite possibly would get enough votes – or at least scare away enough voters through his acrimonious campaigning – to help re-elect Sullivan. But then he expressed his preference for Sullivan over Green as mayor last time. I doubt COPE would actually choose Louis as a mayoral candidate, given that Woodsworth’s more conciliatory slate now controls the party.
So what do you think? Which of these people might be plausible candidates for mayor? And are there any others who come to mind?
Last edited by obscurantist on Sat May 03, 2008 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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leftcoastguy Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5977 Location: Leftcoast
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Fred Bass singlehandily can claim credit for putting Sullivan into the mayor's chair. What a freakin' idiot he was dividing the opposition to the NPA like that in the last election. _________________ Thinking is so overrated.  |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Sure, Bass didn't help things. And neither did Tim Louis. Or James Green. Or Larry Campbell. Plenty of blame to go around. But you can't live in the past, eh?
So, leftcoastguy, who would you like to see as Vancouver mayor? I promise I won't disagree with you just for the sake of disagreeing with you.  |
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leftcoastguy Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5977 Location: Leftcoast
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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I thought Jim Green would have been a good mayor but perhaps his day is done. How old is he now?
I think it would be a shame to see either Gregor or Jenny leave the provincial scene before the next provincial election.
Louie or Cadman perhaps. _________________ Thinking is so overrated.  |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I think Green's in his mid-sixties.
Well, it looks like we agree. I guess I can live with that.  |
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leftcoastguy Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5977 Location: Leftcoast
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Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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What about Heather Deal (sp?)
Who voted for Jenny?
If Jenny leaves provincial politics she would be an excellent candidate imo. _________________ Thinking is so overrated.  |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, Heather Deal might be a good candidate. She's got the background on council and on parks board before that. Of course, the media would go wild over the opportunity to make headlines with stupid puns like "COPE, Vision, reach Deal over joint mayoral candidate" or "The left's new Deal for Vancouver" (you heard it here first, folks). Maybe George Chow -- he also seems to have emerged as a strong presence on council. Just about any of the Vision and COPE councillors could lead a campaign, I guess, except for maybe Tim Stevenson.
The sad thing is that of the names I've heard mentioned as possible candidates, none have been female. I added Kwan and Woodsworth to the list because I thought they had just as much relevant experience as many of the men whose names had been suggested. Without them and Tim Louis (who I added because he's been so central in the left-wing squabbling of the last several years), the group of "contenders" is a bunch of straight able-bodied guys, all of whom are white except for Raymond Louie.
Like I said, I have no way of knowing whether Kwan would even be interested -- like Libby Davies, she probably feels with some justification that she's needed where she is right now. It just says a lot that no one would even float their names in the first place. |
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Admiral Awesome still stirring, not shaken

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1030
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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I voted for Robertson, I think he'd make a good mayor, but then again I too would hate to loose him from the provincial scene. And it seems that traditionally most people move from municipal to provincial politics, not the other way around. Which is why I don't think we'd be seeing Kwan either, even though I think she'd make a good mayor too.
Cadman might work, due to his experience, and I think he'd make a good Mayor but I think I'd prefer to not run one of the people who were involved in the previous council. Which is why I'd prefer not to run Louie either. Even though I'd much rather have either of them run, as opposed to Stevenson (who'd probably pull a John Kerry - not to mention his role in the previous council), or god forbid Louis (another divisive candidate). Hell if either of the last two ran I'd be tempted to vote for a third party candidacy.
I think names like Deal, or Chow are far better choices, mostly because they weren't that associated with the divisiveness of the previous council, but seem to be solid councillors who have the political skills, and solidly pro-environmental stances, to take on Sullivan and yet are moderate enough to avoid being easily portrayed as 'scary' along the lines of say a Bass or Louis candidacy. It seems like this strike has had somewhat of a negative effect on Sullivan's approval ratings, cause I don't think most people will think he's handled it very well. But he should never be under estimated. |
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leftcoastguy Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5977 Location: Leftcoast
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Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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This is indeed great news if it materializes.
| Quote: | Vision Vancouver is close to attracting a UBC medical-school professor to its slate for city council in 2008. Kerry Jang, former president of Collingwood Neighbourhood House in East Vancouver, confirmed that he interested in running council.
"The workload is lightening up," Jang told the Straight . "In a year's time, I would be in a good position to do it."
Last year, Jang shelved his plan to seek the federal NDP nomination in Vancouver Kingsway, saying the expansion of the school was keeping him busy.
In April, the British Columbia Achievement Foundation cited Jang for his work in the community, particularly in helping address issues of homelessness, addiction, and mental health. The psychiatry professor is also a member of the board of the citizens' group Think City. |
UBC Prof May Run for Council _________________ Thinking is so overrated.  |
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leftcoastguy Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5977 Location: Leftcoast
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Vision and COPE better get their act together. It's time to bury the hatchet (sorry but that means you too Fred Bass), join together, get a brand new name that everyone can live with, and run a a group of a good cross section of the Vancouver community, and a high profile unifying mayority candidate as well.
What are the ethnic breakdowns for Vancouver?
European - ?%
Chinese - ?%
East Indian - ?%
Etc. - ?% _________________ Thinking is so overrated.  |
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V. Jara Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 178
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Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jenny Kwan's not a good public speaker, otherwise I would agree. Jang would make a good candidate for council and unless Robertson or someone else steps up, I think people would be smart to go with candidate Cadman. |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Vision has an unprecedented three-way race for its mayoral nomination between Robertson, Louie, and former NPA park board commissioner Alan de Genova. The would-be Vision candidates had their first public debate last week, and a couple more debates are planned before the nomination meeting on June 15.
Meanwhile, Peter Ladner decided to openly challenge Sullivan for the NPA's mayoral nomination, and Sullivan agreed to change the party's rules to allow Ladner to run against him. The NPA will choose its mayoral candidate on June 8, although Sullivan has tried to avoid a public debate with Ladner (a story in today's Sun suggests that he's changed his mind, but it's difficult to tell - does anyone here speak Sullivanese?).
If there's going to be a third-party challenge to Vision on the left, it could come from Betty Krawczyk, who announced her candidacy several months back when she got out of jail, or from COPE, as David Cadman has mused about COPE running its own mayoral candidate (possibly Cadman himself). I'm not sure when COPE will be making that decision - maybe not until August or September.
A particularly good source of information about the election, including about candidates for council / park board / school board, is the Vancouver Sun's City States blog.
Last edited by obscurantist on Tue May 27, 2008 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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More revealing than the debate itself is the fact that Vision claims to have signed up at least 10,000 new members. Allen Garr suggests that, even discounting those members who are ineligible to vote at the nomination meeting by virtue of being too young or not being Vancouver residents, Vision is likely the biggest municipal political party this city has ever seen. It doesn't mean for certain that the NPA will lose its council majority or the mayoralty in November, but it shows considerable dissatisfaction with the NPA, possibly even among its own core supporters, and it does suggest that Vision is building a broad coalition, hopefully one that won't fall apart like COPE did when it won control of council in 2002.
The range of people supporting the various candidates seems to confirm this. While Louie has relatively few high-profile supporters (mainly NDP stalwarts like Joy MacPhail), Robertson has the endorsement of current and former elected officials from COPE, the NPA and the Greens. Meanwhile, Larry Campbell (now a Liberal senator) is supporting de Genova, as is Mark Marissen, the federal and provincial Liberal backroom boy who ran his wife Christy Clark's unsuccessful campaign for the 2005 NPA mayoral nomination. I get the sense that the Liberals in Vision are hedging their bets. If Ladner can replace Sullivan as the NPA nominee, and if de Genova fails in his takeover of Vision, some of the Liberals may drift back to the NPA. But then Liberals like to bet on a winning horse, and may be more inclined in any event to support a party that's building itself up rather than one that's tearing itself apart.
I realize this is getting a bit horse-race-ish, and that aspect of politics doesn't interest me nearly as much as it used to. So to put it in different terms, this is a critical election in that the NPA under Sullivan has become very much like the Harper Tories and Campbell Liberals, focusing entirely on PR announcements and on jamming the opposition rather than on substantive policy. And Ladner has been an enthusiastic participant in Sullivan's project up until very recently. If voters reward the NPA for its behaviour, we can expect a lot more of the same and worse.
My main fear is that voters on the centre and left will get hung up on the narcissism of small differences, on the lingering bitterness of the split between COPE and Vision, and will allow the NPA to sneak back in. There's a lot of good people in COPE, and I expect they'll have council and park / school board candidates worth supporting. But if COPE and Vision attack each other, particularly in a mayoral race which after all does count for one possibly crucial vote on council, it doesn't take a political science prof to figure out what will happen.
I think whoever wins the Vision mayoral nomination will be an electable and competent choice for the mayoralty. Given de Genova's personality and his supporters, I'm a bit leery of the prospect that he could be a repeat of Larry Campbell. But unlike Campbell, de Genova won't be handed the candidacy in a coronation, so hopefully he'll be more realistic than Campbell was about who he has to work with.
As I've said before, I respect Cadman a lot, and think he's done a great job on council. I just think a mayoral run would wreck that. He can continue with the work he's doing, with greater influence if the centre-left can win back control of council, sort of as a George Puil of the left, the guy who gets things done. Or he can end his elected political career as a Ralph Nader of sorts, either as the guy who re-elected Sullivan and the NPA (if he gets enough votes to make a difference) or as someone completely irrelevant.
On another note, the mechanics of the current tensions within Vancouver city politics show the need for reform of its electoral system. It was through Sullivan's vigorous and well-funded efforts that the proposal for a ward system failed four years ago. I'm not entirely convinced that a ward system would be a miracle cure for the skewed outcomes of our elections (one such outcome being the fact that independent candidates have virtually no chance of getting elected), but it could be a good first step. Even the winner-take-all model of electing a mayor, which is in place across Canada, is prone to abuse, as shown by the suspiscious third-party candidacy of James Green last time and by the allegations that have been made about the most recent Ottawa mayoral race. |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: |
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There's another debate between the candidates vying for Vision's mayoral nomination on Tuesday, June 3 at 12:30 on the radio station CKNW.
It's on the show hosted by Christy Clark. That would be the same Christy Clark who ran for the NPA mayoral nomination in the last election, and whose husband Mark Marissen is now supporting one of the three would-be Vision candidates, Alan de Genova.
What can I say? It's a small world.... |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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The thing with a Coalition of Progressive Electors meeting is that you can never predict when -- in the name of democracy -- someone will decide to launch a rocket. Or, almost as bad, start a debate about "process." That always lends an element of suspense to COPE annual general meetings that you just don't find with other political parties. | Quote: | The COPE executive had worked long and hard to try to prevent too much of that in anticipation of the meeting. They'd negotiated for several weeks to come up with a common slate of 11 for the executive, with six to come from the Ellen Woodsworth + The Youngsters group, and five from the Tim Louis + The 1960s group, to label them very broadly.
They also knew that someone from the floor was likely to raise the issue that COPE should decide immediately on whether to run a mayoral candidate....
It looked early on like the conciliators easily had the majority in the room, which drew about 200. Louis moved to vary the agenda at the beginning of the meeting and that was defeated. Raymond Louie of Vision Vancouver, standing at the sidelines, was welcomed by chair Donald Greenwell-Baker and got some boos, but not an overwhelming number. Ellen Woodsworth, as the external co-chair, made a speech about the values of COPE.... A good balancing act, designed to keep both sides happy.
But then, when the time came to nominate the new executive members, things went awry. The first seven were fine -- nominated, no challengers, accepted. But when it came time to nominate the four members at large, five were nominated. Uh-oh. What was going on? ...
Readers, it was tense. Lots of whispering. Then an argument over process erupted after Rita Chudnovsky made a motion suggesting that all five of them should be elected, which would entail changing the number of board members. Lots of back and forth, but confusingly, not along group lines. Alisia Barsallo: "We can't change the constitution at will." Tim Louis: "Where there's a will, there's a way." ...
(However, the unintended comic moment of the meeting happened during this vote when one woman got to the microphone and started on an impassioned denunciation of the voting process, pointing to the five names up on the screen and saying, "This is not democracy" indicating that three names were underlined in red. Presumably a subliminal message intended to sway voters to vote for a secret slate. Someone else had to get up and explain Microsoft spellcheck and the way it will put a red wavy line under unfamiliar words.) ...
And Sid Tan got up to bring the elephant in the room out in the open, making a motion that COPE decide then and there to run its own mayoral candidate. Then everyone started lining up on one side and the other for what was the clear dividing line. ... | COPE ended up deferring until September the decision on running a mayoral candidate. I predict (or at least, I would like very much to see) that in the end Tim Louis will have virtually no influence over the slate that was briefly his own cult of personality. Hopefully a similar thing will happen with Vision, which started out as Larry Campbell's vanity project. All indications are that Campbell's preferred candidate (De Genova) will finish a distant third. Of course, if by some fluke De Genova ends up as Vision's mayoral candidate, that'll play into Louis' hands.
And my respect for Raymond Louie just increased considerably. He must be one brave guy to show up at COPE's AGM, although perhaps he was wearing Kevlar or something. (Edited to add: I hear De Genova was there as well. While there'd be some antagonism toward him from COPE members on ideological grounds, it wouldn't be as personal as the antagonism toward Louie.) |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Christy Clark is interviewing Ladner and Sullivan on CKNW right now. This could be fun. It's always more entertaining to see the other guys tear each other apart.
(And at the risk of belabouring the point, yes, this is the same Christy Clark who ran against Sullivan for the NPA nomination last time. If I tried making this stuff up, no one would believe me....)
Edited to add: Vision had a second public debate tonight, which I went to. Glad I did, because I have a clearer sense of the candidates now.
Robertson has more substance than I gave him credit for - either he's been following developments at the local level closely for a while before going into politics, or he's a quick study. My preference for Louie might partly be due to the fact that I identify with him more - he seems like given a choice, he'd rather not be speaking to an audience, but when he gets going on topics that matter to him, he can speak in a way that's down-to-earth, engaged and quite articulate. If anything, he's better thinking on his feet than giving a prepared speech, while Robertson might be the other way around.
De Genova appears to be a decent, smart, genial guy who would make a good candidate and mayor, and whose views aren't particularly reactionary, but he's just in the wrong party. Really, he should be the NPA candidate, and he would be the best person they've fielded for mayor since ... well, I guess I'd have to say "since Owen" because I can't think of any other NPA mayors or mayoral candidates who I have the time of day for. From the response he got at the debate, which was civil but tepid aside from his cheering section of a few young yobbos with "Al!" t-shirts, I'd be very surprised if he has a chance of winning the Vision nod.
They had a few interesting questions, submitted by Vision members. A couple on labour relations, one on waste management, one on the Southeast False Creek affordable housing component. One question was about working with COPE. Robertson emphasized his support from across the political spectrum. De Genova stressed his collaboration with COPE park board commissioners. Louie referred to his ongoing working relationship with Cadman.
Another question, which I'd wanted to ask, was whether they'd run for council if they lost the mayoral nomination. Louie gave an uncategorical yes, saying that he hadn't originally run for council with the idea of becoming mayor and that he had work he would continue to do in either capacity. De Genova said he was focused on running for mayor and that he'd decide what to do after June 15, noting that he'd served 15 years on park board before deciding not to run for that office again. Robertson said that he would continue to serve as MLA, and in the fall would decide whether he could best serve the citizens of Vancouver by remaining an MLA or by running for council, which I thought was at least an honest response.
The vote will be decided by a preferential ballot. Think I'll stick with my plan of ranking Louie first and Robertson second. I feel quite upbeat about the prospect of either as the candidate, and they seem to be the frontrunners. De Genova probably wouldn't be a total disaster, but I don't think he'd be a great fit for Vision. |
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TS. Delicious schadenfreude

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 13143 Location: Toronto, ON
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Huge news! Sam Sullivan has lost the race for the NPA nomination for mayor! The NPA candidate next election will be Peter Ladner.
Source: Globe and Mail _________________ "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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In addition to losing the nomination, the mayor also had a pitcher of Coke poured on him by an Anti-Poverty Committee protester who walked into the meeting.
This isn't the first stunt like this the APC has pulled - they also dumped a pile of garbage outside Sullivan's condo the other year. I don't think the causes they claim to promote are helped by such nasty personalized tactics. They basically use those causes as an excuse to bully people.
Sullivan's also something of a bully, in more of a manipulative, passive-aggressive way. But he didn't deserve to get literally dumped on by the APC like that. |
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Leisure Suit Larry *BANNED*
Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 103 Location: The best place on earth, Enmasse!
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I have no respect for the anti poverty committee and have no sympathy for the plight of someone who would pour coke over someone in a wheelchair. Maybe it's because their own lives are so terrible, which one can only hope. |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Given that Vision was hoping to face Sullivan, the question is now who they should choose to take on Ladner. I think Louie would be the best candidate in the present circumstances, and I've heard a few other people suggest that he got a boost from Ladner's victory.
Ladner and Robertson are kind of similar. They're both eloquent urbane types with business experience and "green" credentials of the sort that West Side yuppies admire (Ladner being Mr. Cyclist, and Robertson being Mr. Organic). The main difference is that Ladner has more political experience at the local level. It's true that he's spent the last three years supporting Sullivan as council went "off the rails" in Ladner's words. But his experience would probably give him an edge over Robertson, assuming that the NPA isn't irreparably divided.
Louie, on the other hand, has been on council as long as Ladner, and he's a bit different in style - more of a plain-spoken populist. He apparently was a lousy public speaker when he started out, but as I mentioned above, in the recent debates he seemed quite good on his feet, with a knack for cutting through the rhetoric and putting things in concrete terms.
Others have suggested that Robertson would be the best candidate to take on Ladner, which is probably the prevailing wisdom. The Georgia Straight's Charlie Smith comes up with some original arguments in support of this position: | Quote: | Ladner conducted a successful putsch against an incumbent in a wheelchair, who had defied the odds in life to become mayor of the city.
It's pretty easy to make that seem like a mean thing to do....
In addition, Ladner is not the most emotional politician out there. Sometimes, he comes across as pretty damn cold.
Especially when he talks about the amount of money being shovelled at the Downtown Eastside or when he's dismissing his critics. ...
How should Vision Vancouver exploit this?
If party members have any brains, they would ... choose the most appropriate mayoral candidate to highlight that the NPA candidate can be a meanie at times.
The best candidate to do this would be Gregor Robertson, who has an unsullied reputation as a nice guy.
He's not a technocrat, like Raymond Louie. Ladner could be an ISTP and Louie might well be an ISTJ on the Myers-Briggs personality test. These IST-dominant personality types are not the warmest folks you'll encounter.
Robertson, likely an ENFP, also doesn't have 15 years of political baggage, like the party's other mayoral wannabe, Al De Genova. ...
Ladner has also not demonstrated a great interest in harm reduction for drug addicts -- and this was the key issue that turned the 2002 election in COPE's favour.
Vancouverites want solutions to the drug problem. Many have relatives or know other people who've fallen into the abyss of addiction. These voters know that these addicts are usually sad cases who are more deserving of sympathy than contempt.
And these voters also applaud efforts like the supervised-injection site that will save people's lives by preventing overdose deaths.
Compassionate and scientifically based approaches to the drug issue resonate with the types of voters who sometimes don't show up to vote in municipal elections -- but who will turn out if there are sufficiently compelling issues. | Not entirely sure I agree with Smith's characterization of Louie as a frosty "technocrat" - I agree that he's on the introverted side and a policy wonk, but he doesn't have Ladner's aristocratic air. And some of the other ideas Smith floats, like Vision coming up with nicknames for Ladner like "Brutus" or "Mao," are probably best left in blog land.
But he's right that Ladner has a weak spot for Vision to exploit. In the comment section, Smith suggests that "Ladner egged the mayor into taking a hard line" on the civic strike. And Ladner served as the NPA's point man / enforcer / spokesperson on other issues where they took a hard line, like firing the variance board. |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The Big Show wrote: | | I have no respect for the anti poverty committee and have no sympathy for the plight of someone who would pour coke over someone in a wheelchair. |
Well, as someone who has spent a protracted period of time in a wheelchair, lemme tell ya that simply being stuck in a wheelchair does not (and should not) earn one a "free pass". Just as with able-bodied individuals, the "crip" community has its fair share of assholes, opportunists, megalomaniacs...
Hell, even someone as heavily mythologized as FDR is not above criticism, let alone having some fizzy pop poured over him.
That said, I will agree that far too often the APC get carried away with themselves, and do their various causes more harm than good with their over-the-top antics. _________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'll say this for Sullivan: in a perverse way, he got people to stop seeing him in terms of his disability. By antagonizing so many people with his policies and his leadership style, he made it easy to forget that he was confined to a wheelchair. (Likewise, when I think of former councillor Tim Louis, the first things that come to mind are his Che Guevara t-shirt and his blistering attacks on, well, just about everyone, rather than the fact that he's quadriplegic.)
As for what people don't like about Sullivan, the Globe's intrepid investigative reporter and deep thinker Gary Mason concludes that few can articulate their intense antipathy toward the man. They simply just can't stand him.
| Quote: | | "It's true," a key adviser of the mayor said. "The hatred for Sam is amazing. I've talked to lots of people about why and no one can put a finger on it. It's not his handling of a specific issue or issues, it's more ephemeral than that. They just don't like him - period." | Charlie Smith disagrees with Mason, and thinks that Sullivan was done in by the Vancouver establishment who control the NPA and who don't like political lone wolves. | Quote: | Sullivan is the latest in a long line of politicians who paid a price for not schmoozing enough with the media and the glitterati. Often, these politicians are brighter than their peers, and prefer reading books to demonstrating their wit at cocktail parties.
Examples include former NDP MLA Tom Perry, former B.C. Liberal leader and NDP cabinet minister Gordon Wilson, former COPE councillor Fred Bass, former NPA councillor Jennifer Clarke, and Liberal Leader Stephane Dion.
Some in the media dislike these types of politicians because they don't play the game like the schmoozers (i.e. John Reynolds or Jim Green), who are always willing to phone a reporter with a news tip.
Instead, the more introverted types often focus on public policies. And then they end up getting hammered for it. | They're both wrong, at least as far as Sullivan's loss to Ladner is concerned. Mason is just being the lazy journalist that he usually is. And while there may be an element of truth in Smith's description of Sullivan, he's being too clever by half. Gordon Wilson a thoughtful, introverted policy wonk? I don't think so. And Reynolds and Green, despite being "schmoozers", went down to electoral defeat just as most of the "introverts" listed by Smith did.
Mason at least scratches the surface of the problem when he goes on to say that Sullivan "seems to have a governing style more grating than galvanizing, divisive than unifying." But it's much more than that.
Sullivan was elected with a narrow majority because of the previous council's disarray, and proceeded to quickly ram through a number of changes like drastically cutting back council's public advisory committees, firing en masse a council-appointed board that heard appeals of development decisions, substituting an expensive retrofit for the proposed Burrard Bike lane trial, and slashing the affordable housing component in what was supposed to be an ecologically and socially sustainable large-scale development. (Much of this may not have been Sullivan's own doing, but rather reflected broader NPA policies.)
The mayor then proceeded to turn his office into a PR machine like that of the BC Liberals, churning out his own press releases puffing up his achievements, commissioning his own polls, and developing "policy initiatives" that were either a repackaging of previous work by others (like EcoDensity) or Giuliani-esque populist spin (like Project Civil City). Then there was the civic strike, which Sullivan prolonged by barging in and trying to singlehandedly show the unions who was boss. In all of these instances, he went on the attack against the opposition on council and anyone else who dared to criticize his moves, claiming that they were politicizing matters of important public policy. (Ladner served as the mayor's point man on several of these issues.)
Finally, with this year's election approaching, Sullivan spontaneously came up with some brilliant ideas that he had dismissed when the opposition raised them earlier, like hiring more cops. And perhaps most importantly for the purposes of his own party, Sullivan built up his own private re-election fund that he didn't share with the NPA.
I think Raymond Louie may also be able to do what Sullivan did -- get people to see beyond a label -- albeit hopefully not in the same way. Louie is of Chinese ancestry, but was born here and isn't fluent in Mandarin. To me, he's a guy who helped Larry Campbell form Vision Vancouver and who has been the main opposition spokesperson on council over the last three years.
I've heard some people say that Sullivan's Chinese supporters may now flock to Louie, while I've heard others characterize Louie as a "Banana" (i.e., yellow on the outside, white on the inside). I doubt that the former will happen -- I don't think people are that superficial -- while the latter is a stupid and unhelpful label, just like people arguing about whether Obama is "really" black. Just judge Louie for who he is: a politician who has some flaws and who's made some mis-steps, but who has enough experience and vision to be considered as a legitimate candidate in his own right. Ultimately, the NPA judged Sullivan in these terms, and decided that they could do better. |
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Admiral Awesome still stirring, not shaken

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1030
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Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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I'm not convinced Ladner will be that much more difficult to beat than Sullivan. Sullivan was tarred and feathered by the Civic Strike, largely because of his own autocratic leadership, but when it comes down to it the entire NPA-team including Ladner stood behind him. Really I can't think of a single policy issue where Ladner broke with the NPA caucus, or Mayor Sullivan. Ladner outlined why he was running pretty clearly in this Tyee article:
| Quote: | "I'm running for the NPA mayoralty nomination because Sam can't win in November," Ladner said in an opening statement that set the tone for the hour-long exchange.
"Everywhere I go, people are saying the same thing: 'I supported Sam Sullivan and the NPA in the last election, but I won't be voting for Sam again.'
"And the polls bear this out. Two-thirds of the voters say they are unlikely to vote for Sam Sullivan in November. NPA members prefer me as their leader by a two-to-one margin." |
So while Ladner does list a few specific examples of Sullivan's failures of leadership, COPE/Vision are going to, and have been consistently pointing out that Ladner voted with his colleagues.
In fact, I think Sullivan would've been a slightly more formidable candidate. He had already raised about 500K for his own personal re-election campaign, and I'm not really sure where that money goes now. So I'm not sure that it would be legal for him to transfer that to the Municipal Party, or to Ladner, or that he'd even want to (then again it could be, so this might not be an issue). Also, he had a bit of an advantage, amongst Vancouver's Cantonese speaking community (about 140,000 ppl IIRC), seeing as he could speak the language fluently, was a media darling in the local-Chinese language press and won Cantonese speaking voters (not sure about Mandarin ones though) by a substantial margin last time. While it's possible/likely Ladner will still win a plurality of their votes against the Vision candidate, as far as I know he doesn't speak the language, so he won't have that communications advantage Sullivan did therefore I doubt his margin will be as large.
Also the state of the NPA vs. the state of Vision, is pretty sad for the NPA. Only about 2,000 people voted during the NPA meeting, which is far less than what the Vision candidates are likely to recieve, seeing as they've signed at least 15,000 new members. As such the Vision ground game is probably going to be pretty significant. This isn't even including COPE, which supposing De Genova doesn't win should have some sort of working arrangement with Vision. And even if De Genova's people all bolt to the NPA, COPE/Vision membership (and volunteer pool) will still outnumber them....substantially. While the COPE/Vision membership pool would've probably been more motivated to volunteer against Sullivan, I think they'll still sense Ladner is beatable and will therefore be pretty motivated to take back the city. Especially for the more progressive elements within Vision. |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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According to Frances Bula, De Genova's and Louie's campaigns will tell their supporters to mark the other candidate as their second choice in order to beat Robertson. (See also Bula's more detailed update, and Monte Paulsen's article in the Tyee.)
If this is true, it could backfire big-time, particularly for Louie. I’ve supported him partly because I’m leery of the Robertson personality-cult bandwagon (I like Robertson enough that I would rank him second). But if Louie’s organizers think they can count on his supporters to strike an alliance with a centre-right former NPAer backed by provincial and federal Liberals in order to stop an NDP MLA from becoming the mayoral candidate, they might be badly misjudging the nature of Vision Vancouver’s membership. And if they aren’t misjudging, then maybe I’m in the wrong party.
There've also been allegations that the Robertson campaign exerted influence over the Vision board to bend the rules so that ballots with no second preference on them would still be counted. The whole thing just leaves me kind of turned off. I thought the goal was to choose a mayoral candidate and council candidates who either on their own or in cooperation with COPE could take council back from the regressive NPA majority? Apparently not. Rather, it's a battle of egos stage-managed by backroom boys who are too clever by half. |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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To follow up on that last point, Bula speculates today that De Genova's Liberal backers are trying to sneak to victory through a ratfucking strategy that would make Nixon proud:
There's been something puzzling me all week about the information percolating out about the alleged deal between the Allan De Genova campaign and the Raymond Louie campaign to get their supporters to mark each other as second choice. That information came from the De Genova camp only. | Quote: | Neil Monckton at the Louie camp has consistently refuted the idea that there is any deal and I hear, furthermore, that he has had to do a lot of repair work among the NDP/labour people among the Louie supporters who would under no circumstances be willing to mark De Genova as their second choice.
So it's De Genova's people who want this story out. But why? ...
But then I got information yesterday and today from a couple of parties that made some other pieces fall into place for me. What they're hearing is that the De Genova camp is convinced that they have managed to swing over a lot of the ethnic voters that Louie thought he had signed up. So they believe they are now actually in second place, if not first. But if it is second, they need those second -choice votes from the Louie people in order to win. It would also help if some of Louie's NDP/labour voters were annoyed enough with rumours of the alleged deal that they decided not to come out and vote at all. That would further drive down Louie's numbers and ensure that De Genova got that coveted second spot in the first round of counting.
So here's what the De Genova camp might do in order to make that happen.
1. Get stories planted in the local media, anonymously, about how both the De Genova and Louie campaigns have been screwed repeatedly by evil manipulations from the Gregor Robertson campaign people and that the board is dominated by Robertson supporters who are rigging the vote. That creates a sense among Louie supporters that they and De Genova supporters are the underdogs against the big bad frontrunner. Both the De Genova and Louie camps have grumbled about this privately, but that's different from ensuring that a story gets into a newspaper. That broadcasts the message out publicly to Louie's supporters that Robertson is the enemy and De Genova is the ally, which is a lot different from campaign-room gossip and grumbling. Because it's anonymous, it can also make it seem like it's coming from both aggrieved camps.
2. Spread stories anonymously that there is a "deal." That would make the NDP/labour people in the Louie camp angry, maybe even convince some of them to stay home on voting day because they're annoyed. That could push Louie's vote down. Other non-hostile-to-De Genova Louie supporters might be influenced by the story, thinking it's an official message from the campaign, to mark De Genova as their second choice.
3. Tell everyone on and off the record that the De Genova camp is encouraging its supporters to vote for Louie as their second choice. That makes the Louie people feel good and as though they should return the favour.
4. Wait for the results to roll in, with De Genova coming in second when the first-choice votes are counted and then winning, with all of Louie's second-choice supporters, on the second ballot.
Okay, this isn't rock-solid political science. I admit, too, that I have not always guessed who the killer is before the half-hour mark when I'm watching Law & Order. But I often do! And this theory has a certain plausibility, especially given the sophistication of political organizers in this campaign, like Bill Cunningham, the Robin to uber-Lib organizer Mark Marissen's Batman. Remember how Stephane Dion came from behind.
Some people might think that that's an awful lot of three-dimensional chess-playing to go through for marginal results. But remember last week: If only 41 people had voted for Sam Sullivan instead of Peter Ladner, it would be Ladner sitting at home dusting off his resume this week, not Sullivan. Planting doubt, swinging people over, getting someone to stay home or come out -- even if that only works for a small minority, it could win the election. ...
I'm sure that you, like me, are by now thinking that it's distressing to hear about these kinds of political shenanigans. (What are issues? What about the future of this city? What about some of the terrible messes that need to be fixed here?) And they aren't the only shenanigans, of course. The weeks of fighting over the preferential vote, the venue, the hours, and all the rest of it between the three camps has not been inspirational. I can't say that there is any campaign that has been completely above reproach. As you can see from at least one comment on my blog from a Robertson worker, volunteers who are working in these offices are not impressed by the level of vitriol that's been coming out in the last week. In fact, the past couple of weeks have been like a bad cross between a Mary McCarthy novel, with various left-wingers who have slept with each other literally or figuratively at various times now doing each other in, and John Le Carre spy intrigue. | Well, "sophistication" isn't exactly the word I'd use for a Liberal fixer like Bill Cunningham. But aside from that, I find Bula's theory plausible. And I agree completely with her about the corrosive effect of such "shenanigans." So I'll probably stick to my original plan of voting for Louie and ranking Robertson second, although I can think of good reasons for ranking them the other way around. |
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munroe Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Posts: 332 Location: Lower Mainland
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Obscure, if I was in Vancouver I would do exactly what you are doing. Mind you, I hate it when the MSM influences my thinking, even a decent reporter like Bula. _________________ Out of Afghanistan, NOW! |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Close to 6,800 people (!) turned out to select Vision Vancouver's mayoral nominee today. Gregor Robertson won with almost 3,500 votes, while Raymond Louie got just over 2,200 and Al De Genova got just under 1,000.
The clear win helped defuse the tension that had been present all day, as Louie organizers claimed that their voters were being challenged more frequently than others on their right to vote. | Quote: | COPE Coun. David Cadman said he thinks the two parties can work together if Robertson reaches out.
"I think yes, they will be willing to endorse Gregor. There's not that baggage there," said Cadman. ...
The campaign mobilized hundreds of people who have never been involved in civic politics, from young people supporting the Robertson campaign to people in the city's diverse Chinese communities, along with Filipinos, Hispanics and South Asians for the Louie campaign. ...
In total, 6,771 people voted out of 13,600 members. Some started lining up at 7:30 in the morning - something almost unheard of in civic politics.
"I've been working in politics since 1969 and I've never seen anything like this," said Margaret Birrell, who was working with the Louie campaign. ...
The voting day was a mini-festival, with bands, a stilt-walker, hula hoops and a volunteer on roller-skates directing traffic in the parking lot at the Croatian Cultural Centre on Commercial Drive, where the vote was held.
There was a barbecue for the couple of hundred people who chose to hang out and enjoy the atmosphere after voting. ...
By 8:30, buses started rolling in steadily from the Louie and De Genova campaigns, disgorging mainly Chinese voters. De Genova had put on a free breakfast at the Pink Pearl restaurant and then brought voters from there is luxurious air-conditioned buses, while Louie opted for plainer yellow school buses.
Around 10 a.m., a large surge of Robertson supporters started to appear and the line-up grew to about 500 people, snaking through the parking lot and out to the street.
Every campaign got worried as people started to leave because of the line-ups.
But around noon, the lineup disappeared and voting proceeded smoothly throughout the afternoon, even as busloads of Indo-Canadian voters started appearing. ...
The major source of tension throughout the day was over voters being told they couldn't vote because they weren't on the membership list, their identification wasn't considered good enough or there was a discrepancy between the name on their ID and the name on the party list.
Louie campaigners were the most upset, as large numbers of their ethnic voters were told they weren't on the list or that their identification wasn't good enough.
The Louie campaign, which had several lawyers on the floor all day challenging decisions, ended up having 500 people allowed to vote by getting other members to sign statutory declarations saying who they were and where they lived. ... | I didn't have time to stay around after I voted, but I can attest to the festive atmosphere. The Louie campaign had a block party on a street near the cultural centre. Did a bit of a double-take when I saw a large blimp-shaped balloon emblazoned with the acronym "COPE," but in this case COPE stood for the Canadian Office and Professional Employees union, not for the slate Louie used to belong to.
The huge number of new members is encouraging, particularly given that around half of them took the trouble to come out to vote (and given the involvement of so many young people in a process that normally generates the same level of interest as a panel discussion on chartered accountancy). Raymond Louie will be running for council again, so hopefully the members he signed up will stay engaged in the Vision campaign. It's less clear whether De Genova or his supporters will stick around. Also good to hear that COPE (the slate) may be more amenable to Robertson, although Cadman certainly doesn't speak for everyone in COPE. And Vision is no longer just the vanity project of Larry Campbell, whose preferred candidate finished a distant third.
I still think Ladner will be a tough opponent for Robertson, the main difference between them being Robertson's relative lack of experience. Vision can make that into a positive, as Robertson did in his remarks upon winning the nomination today: | Quote: | He said that while Ladner portrays himself as caring about the environment ... and affordable housing, he voted to undermine those programs in his time on city council.
| While Ladner's selection last week will make it a bit tougher, I think Vision (particularly if it can work out a joint slate with COPE, or possibly even on its own) has a good shot at dislodging the small-minded NPA council majority in November. |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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COPE sounds willing to work with Vision, but the tricky bit will be figuring out how to assemble a joint slate, given the current makeup of council and the people who want to run:
| Quote: | If you look at council, it appears there's not a huge amount of room available for COPE, given the commitments Vision already has or might want to make. There are four existing councillors. As well, Kerry Jang and Geoff Meggs have said they want to run. Andrea Reimer and David Eby are still possibilities. Vision would desperately love to have a South Asian candidate. And Robertson said that he wanted to try to convince failed mayoral candidate Allan De Genova to run -- a smart move, as I said previously, to send the message that Vision Vancouver isn't just the NDP in sheep's clothing. And there are probably people lining up around the block with their resumes, now that Vision looks like a potential winner in November. So how much room is there besides the spot that Vision has already guaranteed for incumbents, David Cadman being one of them. But, at the COPE meeting, the point was driven home that there are several new candidates wanting to run at the council level. ...
They're going to have to get this settled over the summer. The fall nominating meetings are coming.
The Ladner team is coming too. Ladner has already been paying visits to the Chinese community, scouting for good candidates for council. I hear that his formerly frosty co-councillors are starting to come around and schedule private meetings with him.
This group, as divided as it might appear now, didn't actually splinter into another party and it has the discipline to put on a united front no matter what. They, too, know that this is going to be a tough race and the last thing they need is bickering over who gets what.
| I believe West End Residents' Association member Aaron Jasper is another prospective Vision candidate.
The park and school board slates probably won't be as tough to agree on, as Vision didn't run candidates for either last time and might well be okay with COPE running more candidates. And COPE and Vision aren't likely to be that far apart on policy.
So if there's anywhere that things could all fall apart, it's on sharing the council slate, because as Frances Bula puts it in the post quoted above, | Quote: | | There is no soft position to take on "You get two, we get eight." |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Surprise! Robertson doesn't get around to telling James he's gone
| Quote: | Opposition leader Carole James left the door open for Gregor Robertson to remain a New Democratic Party member of the legislature while running for mayor of Vancouver.
"I think it is possible for him to stay," James said Monday, one day after Robertson locked up the Vision Vancouver nomination. "We will sit down and talk ... in the next week or so."
But she wasn't able to line up any face time with the MLA before he made the call on his own.
"Robertson announces resignation as MLA," the release from the Gregor-for-mayor campaign said Thursday. "I have decided that all of my energy must be focused on reaching out to all of the citizens of Vancouver and gaining their input, insight and support for my mayoral bid," the Vision hopeful was quoted as saying.
Poor James. She was at a doctor's appointment when her staff relayed the information that Robertson's pending departure was already in the media.
"I heard the news like everybody else," the NDP leader said later. "We didn't get a chance to meet, and that was unfortunate." |
Ooops! _________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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buday4vancouverinde Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: I'm one of the Others. |
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Myself (http://www.bcindividualist.org/fb/), Banana (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Banana/34100647624), Betty K (http://www.worklessparty.org/index.php?option=com_contact&catid=4&Itemid=3), and Pete McMartin (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=28368435021) are "Other".
My left is more to those who are on the right.
Generally or on average I am Classic Liberal or Libertarian and opposed to Eco(nomic) Density and the Liberty Bashing Bylaw Requiring Candidates (for Council Member Candidates but enforced on all) to get 25 signatures (the Parties have 50+ Members to endorse on the ballot, conflict of interest vote?); I am a ballot access for all advocate, for liberalizing nominations (http://www.groups.to/ballotaccess/) and debate access.
I am also against (not to be confused with laws against certain substances) the War on Drugs and all Police State (end justifying the means policing) and a ardent privacy and freedom of speech advocate. Lefties (speech: Guy Earle Case) don't always like that crap across the board, neither do the Righties and sometimes do (speech: Steyn/Levant Case).
None the less to the right I am left. More Populist Libertarian.
I am not a joke Candidate, I do tell them. I am a parody vs Clarke nomination with the neorhino.ca party in Vancouver-Centre over the old guard nomination decision in the Libertarian Party. _________________ Best,
Gölök "LD Taylored" Buday
Artist, Entertainer, Humanist (writer, etc...), Philotician & Candidate for Vancouver (Mayor - I) FBID# 763864821 - "Apathy is the root of all evil's enabling." -- Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday
Last edited by buday4vancouverinde on Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Errr... Gölök?
If that really IS your picture... you're kinda cute, in a Ernesto Guevera way, but your post is just a little... disjointed-sounding.
Maybe you need to smoke something...? _________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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buday4vancouverinde Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Funny thing about this issue. |
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| Hephaestion wrote: | Surprise! Robertson doesn't get around to telling James he's gone
| Quote: | Opposition leader Carole James left the door open for Gregor Robertson to remain a New Democratic Party member of the legislature while running for mayor of Vancouver.
"I think it is possible for him to stay," James said Monday, one day after Robertson locked up the Vision Vancouver nomination. "We will sit down and talk ... in the next week or so."
But she wasn't able to line up any face time with the MLA before he made the call on his own.
"Robertson announces resignation as MLA," the release from the Gregor-for-mayor campaign said Thursday. "I have decided that all of my energy must be focused on reaching out to all of the citizens of Vancouver and gaining their input, insight and support for my mayoral bid," the Vision hopeful was quoted as saying.
Poor James. She was at a doctor's appointment when her staff relayed the information that Robertson's pending departure was already in the media.
"I heard the news like everybody else," the NDP leader said later. "We didn't get a chance to meet, and that was unfortunate." |
Ooops! |
Are the people not paying Ladner to run for Mayor as an incumbent sitting councillor if Robertson was as a sitting MLA? _________________ Best,
Gölök "LD Taylored" Buday
Artist, Entertainer, Humanist (writer, etc...), Philotician & Candidate for Vancouver (Mayor - I) FBID# 763864821 - "Apathy is the root of all evil's enabling." -- Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday |
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buday4vancouverinde Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Hephaestion wrote: | Errr... Gölök?
If that really IS your picture... you're kinda cute, in a Ernesto Guevera way, but your post is just a little... disjointed-sounding.
Maybe you need to smoke something...? |
That is my picture, not much changed since 2002.
I sometimes focus on the point of view more than structure in posting, chain reaction thought; plus subissues come up.
I am guessing your a guy by the profile website, if not, damn.
Disjointed.....smoke something, good one by the way. I guess your rather against privacy seeing the site. Or is it about the Republic of France?
Anyway I am openly ambiguous, I get a room, my business, privacy lover, but if I were tempted by c*ck I wouldn't on moral grounds personally, I rather that crap not be loud and proud and see a privacy activism festival or event replace pride. Call it humility rights.
Left and Right is a complicated issue; should really be an issue by issue thing.
Man I am expected to get 25 signatures; not easy, I feel forced to stop people on their daily business and even mine just to beat the sleazoids who find it easy to do it for themselves.
I don't smoke anything really, there was one giant cigar after 10 years that my sister got me for my birthday, but never buy it and oppose the sale of smokable substances; not restrictions or sin taxing on legal products though. That's obsurd. _________________ Best,
Gölök "LD Taylored" Buday
Artist, Entertainer, Humanist (writer, etc...), Philotician & Candidate for Vancouver (Mayor - I) FBID# 763864821 - "Apathy is the root of all evil's enabling." -- Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday |
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buday4vancouverinde Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: That is awesome! |
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| Hephaestion wrote: | | The Big Show wrote: | | I have no respect for the anti poverty committee and have no sympathy for the plight of someone who would pour coke over someone in a wheelchair. |
Well, as someone who has spent a protracted period of time in a wheelchair, lemme tell ya that simply being stuck in a wheelchair does not (and should not) earn one a "free pass". Just as with able-bodied individuals, the "crip" community has its fair share of assholes, opportunists, megalomaniacs...
Hell, even someone as heavily mythologized as FDR is not above criticism, let alone having some fizzy pop poured over him.
That said, I will agree that far too often the APC get carried away with themselves, and do their various causes more harm than good with their over-the-top antics. |
Well it's the psychological reality of overcompensation with those born without Y cromasomes, crippled, and a little short in executive or some ultimate power.
Man that reminds me of the Sulltan of the Sulliban. Or Frank Williams.
I admit a botched hypospadius and learning dsabilities could cast suspicion on to me, but I am all for scruitinizing people who seek office and get it and having them be legally under oath while running or in official conversation committing perjury on a lie (not to be confused with being wrong).
Trust is the most important thing. Even if you agree 50% if you trust him 90%+ at least you know what your getting.
 _________________ Best,
Gölök "LD Taylored" Buday
Artist, Entertainer, Humanist (writer, etc...), Philotician & Candidate for Vancouver (Mayor - I) FBID# 763864821 - "Apathy is the root of all evil's enabling." -- Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| buday4vancouverinde wrote: | | I am guessing your a guy by the profile website, if not, damn. |
Give the man a prize.
| Quote: | | I guess your rather against privacy seeing the site. Or is it about the Republic of France? |
Queer nationalism.
| Quote: | | Anyway I am openly ambiguous, I get a room, my business, privacy lover, but if I were tempted by c*ck I wouldn't on moral grounds personally, I rather that crap not be loud and proud and see a privacy activism festival or event replace pride. Call it humility rights. |
*cocks eyebrow in a Spock-esque manner* Curious.
| Quote: | | Left and Right is a complicated issue; should really be an issue by issue thing. |
Agreed.
| Quote: | | Man I am expected to get 25 signatures; not easy, I feel forced to stop people on their daily business and even mine just to beat the sleazoids who find it easy to do it for themselves. |
We are not all "salesmen"... but if it's that difficult for you... why on earth did you want to get into politics?
| Quote: | | I don't smoke anything really, there was one giant cigar after 10 years that my sister got me for my birthday, but never buy it and oppose the sale of smokable substances; not restrictions or sin taxing on legal products though. That's obsurd. |
I am an unrepentant smoker -- cigs and pot. What's absurd is to try to regulate a herb -- a weed -- that grows naturally and easily on six of the seven continents on this globe. A prohibitive law that is bound to fail. _________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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buday4vancouverinde Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'll start by saying, with people like me, the NPA may be in fear of my free market fix the road view as well as COPE is fearing the more succesful Vision may split it's vote and repeate the unification that laded them one seat.
| Hephaestion wrote: | | buday4vancouverinde wrote: | | Quote: | | I am guessing your a guy by the profile website, if not, damn. |
Give the man a prize. |
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | I guess your rather against privacy seeing the site. Or is it about the Republic of France? |
Queer nationalism. |
Haha!
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Anyway I am openly ambiguous, I get a room, my business, privacy lover, but if I were tempted by c*ck I wouldn't on moral grounds personally, I rather that crap not be loud and proud and see a privacy activism festival or event replace pride. Call it humility rights. |
*cocks eyebrow in a Spock-esque manner* Curious. |
By-girl curious, well bi-sexual...I have to buy it to get it (owned jokes). But seriously I am openly ambiguous, It works for business. It's hard to joke about being a deviant in all ways other wise and so on. More a privacy speghetti monster worship type morals.
You talking the Spock who told no one to spank kids and then apologised for it on his death bed later?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Left and Right is a complicated issue; should really be an issue by issue thing. |
Agreed. |
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Man I am expected to get 25 signatures; not easy, I feel forced to stop people on their daily business and even mine just to beat the sleazoids who find it easy to do it for themselves. |
We are not all "salesmen"... but if it's that difficult for you... why on earth did you want to get into politics? |
| Quote: | | I don't smoke anything really, there was one giant cigar after 10 years that my sister got me for my birthday, but never buy it and oppose the sale of smokable substances; not restrictions or sin taxing on legal products though. That's obsurd. |
I am an unrepentant smoker -- cigs and pot. What's absurd is to try to regulate a herb -- a weed -- that grows naturally and easily on six of the seven continents on this globe. A prohibitive law that is bound to fail.[/quote]
Regulate? Blueberries are regulated, that's illegal. Damn dandylions are next. Weeds choke other plants, people who do weed force there fume on others, ever walked through it not liking that crap or any second hand crap? Even a public drunk's breath and barf (illegal).
It's what's done with it.
Plus there's the question of the polon and mass production creating more and more of the poisonous reproduction.
Don't you realise it takes a male and female plant to do this, do you want that sort of homophobia in your lungs? _________________ Best,
Gölök "LD Taylored" Buday
Artist, Entertainer, Humanist (writer, etc...), Philotician & Candidate for Vancouver (Mayor - I) FBID# 763864821 - "Apathy is the root of all evil's enabling." -- Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday |
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buday4vancouverinde Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Hephaestion wrote: | | buday4vancouverinde wrote: |
| Quote: | | Man I am expected to get 25 signatures; not easy, I feel forced to stop people on their daily business and even mine just to beat the sleazoids who find it easy to do it for themselves. |
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Well, a signature can now be used as bribes or extortion points, soft money to soft nominations. It wastes everyones time and it's matter of liberty to have no-requirement nomination it is a right to be qualified for office (by voters) not to be qualified for nomination it says nothing about a test for nomination, only the right to vote for the qualification of a candidate (Rights and Freedoms); Ballot access is of paramount reform for people to be guaranteed choices, you know the same pricks who voted to never have another Mr. Peanut again or restrict it, were praising him as a new Museum display.
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_________________ Best,
Gölök "LD Taylored" Buday
Artist, Entertainer, Humanist (writer, etc...), Philotician & Candidate for Vancouver (Mayor - I) FBID# 763864821 - "Apathy is the root of all evil's enabling." -- Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| buday4vancouverinde wrote: | | You talking the Spock who told no one to spank kids and then apologised for it on his death bed later? |
| Quote: | | *cocks eyebrow in a Spock-esque manner* Curious. |
Notice the eyebrow?
ETA: Better example:
 _________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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DSquared aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4111 Location: Winnipeg
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Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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COPE, Vision unite behind Robertson _________________ This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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DSquared aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4111 Location: Winnipeg
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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COPE, Vision field joint slate _________________ This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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buday4vancouverinde Member

Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Posts: 9 Location: Vancouver, BC
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: People, including myself, are starting roll in and file. |
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Candidate Profiles _________________ Best,
Gölök "LD Taylored" Buday
Artist, Entertainer, Humanist (writer, etc...), Philotician & Candidate for Vancouver (Mayor - I) FBID# 763864821 - "Apathy is the root of all evil's enabling." -- Gölök Zoltán Leenderdt Franco Buday |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it's today - people have until 8 pm to vote. Turnout at the advance polls has been double what it was last time, although that's no guarantee of any particular result.
I'm just heading out to vote for Robertson as mayor, the one Green candidate, all the COPE people, most of the Vision candidates, and a few of the Work Less Party candidates.
While the WLP seems like a parody of east-side Vancouver leftist politics, they have a few bright people running for them like Timothy Wisdom, one of the few council candidates to raise the issue of policies that concentrate bars and music venues in a small downtown area while making it more difficult to operate them elsewhere in the city. Might also vote for Geri Tramutola, and for Chris Shaw, a vocal but levelheaded critic of Vancouver's Winter Olympics shell game. There's a WLP candidate running for park board as well.
I tend not to vote just for one slate. Voted for Ladner in 2002, and there's some decent people running for the NPA like Anton, Ball, Geller and Bickerton. But I don't think I'll vote for any NPA candidates this time. The slate went along with Sullivan's stunts for far too long, and they deserve another break. I'm not wild about Vision's candidates either - they seem to embody the most cynical aspects of the provincial NDP and federal Liberals. But at the moment they seem marginally better than the NPA.
In terms of predictions, I see Vision winding up with 5 or 6 seats, while the NPA will probably just keep its 3 incumbents who are running again plus maybe Geller. Cadman will likely be re-elected. As for mayor, I really don't know. I wasn't impressed with Robertson until recently, and the spectacular fumble of Robertson's transit ticket fine left me convinced Ladner would win. But Robertson has done a good job of plugging away on the "why" of the $100 million loan to the Olympic village developer and the need for a secret council meeting to approve it, and I think it's resonated with normally apolitical people, while Ladner has come across as an out-of-touch technocrat.
It's too bad - in one sense, Ladner is better suited than Robertson to be mayor given his knowledge and his work on civic / regional issues over the years. But I also have to go on the basis of his record under Sullivan's mayoralty, and the way he's conducted this campaign. Ladner is like John McCain - in his efforts first to appear loyal and then to obtain power, he's abandoned the qualities that people liked about him in the first place. |
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Admiral Awesome still stirring, not shaken

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1030
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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I sort of held my nose for a few of the Vision candidates, namely Meggs and Stevenson and considered voting for a few of the WLP candidates instead. But I thought about it strategically, plus I really wasn't too sure about a party that would run Ian Gregson, and was worried that not voting straight ticket would lead to a break for the NPA, which I feel needs to be shut out completely. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with the Vision and COPE slates (and the Green guy), they're qualified individuals (for the most part) and their diversity is reflective of Vancouver. Though strangely the gender balance isn't quite as good as the NPA.
Anyhow, here are the results. As of now things are looking good. I'm hoping that a few of the NPA'ers near the bottom of the Council, Parks Board and School Board slates drop off infavour of their COPE or Vision competitors. And though this looks like one of the few instances where the at-large system worked out for the left, I hope that the new council looks at re-introducing the ward system. Though I'd like the NPA to be routed, under a "fair" electoral system they'd still get some representation. In any case there's no guarantee that Vision is now Vancouver's "natural governing party", or that if they become it - they'll remain at least moderately progressive. |
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TS. Delicious schadenfreude

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 13143 Location: Toronto, ON
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Looking at the results, with eight divisions still to report (most in the areas that voted for Robinson), only one NPA councillor is on the list, only one parks commissioner and two school trustees. Robertson is leading by 14000-odd. _________________ "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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TS. Delicious schadenfreude

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 13143 Location: Toronto, ON
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Final results:
Mayor: Gregor Robertson
Councillors:
- Raymond P. Louie (Vision)
- Heather Deal (Vision)
- George Chow (Vision)
- Kerry Jang (Vision)
- Andrea Reimer (Vision)
- Tim Stevenson (Vision)
- David Cadman (COPE)
- Suzanne Anton (NPA)
- Geoff Meggs (Vision)
- Ellen Woodsworth (COPE)
Parks Commissioners:
- Constance Barnes (Vision)
- Aaron Jasper (Vision)
- Sarah Blyth (Vision)
- Loretta Woodcock (COPE)
- Raj Hundal (Vision)
- Stuart MacKinnon (Green)
- Ian Robertson (NPA)
School Trustees:
- Patti Bachus (Vision)
- Mike Lombardi (Vision)
- Ken Clement (Vision)
- Sharon Gregson (Vision)
- Allan Wong (COPE)
- Al Blakey (COPE)
- Jane Bouey (COPE)
- Ken Denike (NPA)
- Carol Gibson (NPA) _________________ "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Admiral Awesome still stirring, not shaken

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1030
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Well it's looking pretty good, and let's just say it's nice to be on the winning team. Not just the moral victory team.
But anyhow. Here are my quick highs and lows of the results.
Lows:
Anita Romaniuk (Parks Board - COPE) didn't get elected. She runs for so much (provincially, municipally) yet gets elected so little. I think she was only elected once out of all the times and positions she's ran for in the last ten years.
Suzanne Anton (Council - NPA) got re-elected. She's qualified, and thus should provide a somewhat reasonable and appealing opposition should Vision screw up. I was hoping that should an NPA'er have survived, it would've been someone somewhat incomprehensible and utterly unsuited to the job. But I guess this can also be a good thing because it's good for democracy. Though I suspect COPE might play a bit of an opposition role to Vision, if Vision strays to far to the right.
Ken Denike (School Board - NPA) got re-elected. Like Anton, he's qualified and should provide a somewhat reasonable and appealing opposition should vision screw up. So again, I was hoping an incomprehensible and unsuited person would've been carrying their flag on School Board. I don't know enough about Carol Gibson to say either way, since the city provided profiles are all rather positive (as they're written by the candidates themselves - though some of the profiles are little wacky too).
Work Less Party - it would've been nice to see them do a little better. They have some interesting ideas. I know people, *cough*myself*cough*, who sympathize with them ought to have voted for them if they believe that. And too many lefties voting for them would've equalled more NPA'ers elected, so that's not too bad. But still I hope they stick around and continue to articulate their ideas.
The Highs
Gregor Robertson (Vision Mayor) getting elected. After that controversy over the ticket for an unpaid Skytrain fair, I thought he would've been derailed. It would've been a shame too, because beyond all of the policy issues at stake and because Kevin Falcon (the provincial Liberal Transportation Minister) would've been happy. And really, what's more annoying to a good Vancouverite than watching a right-wing Surreyite (or is that Surrey-inian?) take pleasure in interfering in our politics? Hmm, now that I think of it maybe that was the kiss of death for Peter Ladner, having someone from Surrey attack his opponent? Just kidding, Surrey jokes are hard to resist.
The NPA getting sweeped out of office. Not much more to it than that, other than the obvious reverse of COPE and Vision doing the sweeping.
Constance Barnes (Vision) topping the Parks Board polls was pretty neat to see. Her dad, the late NDP MLA for Vancouver-Burrard (Emery Barnes), would be pretty proud.
Stuart MacKinnon (Green) winning a seat on parks board was good to see. They have before, but it was good to see every party in the lefty-alliance getting some representation.
Vision doing so well in the South-Eastern quadrant of the city. Compare Today's map.
With 2005's.
The differences are like night and day. I really think Sullivan can be credited with doing so well (for an NPA'er) on the eastside in 2005, largely because of his ability to speak Cantonese and because he's from the area. He was a jerk, but he was a populist, non-blue blood jerk. If he ran again, I don't know that the left would've done so well in that Renfrew-Collingwood, Hastings-Sunrise area.
Also, one of the other areas that I was surprised Vision did well in, was the Cole-Harbour/False Creek area. If there are any provincial trends to read into from this, which might be a bit dangerous, maybe the NDP stands a chance in the new Vancouver-False Creek seat that I would've assumed was safely Liberal. |
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obscurantist wonk, snark, pedant
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 739
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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A few random thoughts:
I was disappointed to see that Kashmir Dhaliwal just barely missed getting elected. There hasn't been an Indo-Canadian person on council since the '70s, which is kind of strange for one of the city's largest communities. It's also strange that Dhaliwal didn't seem to benefit from the sweep that elected all of Vision's other council candidates. On the other hand, Raj Hundal made it onto parks board, and we now have an aboriginal person on school board (Ken Clement), with three Chinese-Canadians on council.
With COPE electing both of its candidates for council and Vision winning a large majority, Vision may be tempted to conclude that it doesn't need COPE's support anymore, and could try to secure the political centre for itself in order to permanently take the NPA's place. COPE could decide that it has nothing to gain by being conciliatory toward Vision (although Cadman and Woodsworth have a record as concilators - I'm pleasantly surprised to see Woodsworth back on council, by the way). If that's the case, the seeds for an NPA comeback may already have been sown. I expect Anton to do a good job of carrying the NPA banner.
The results also could bode well for the NDP in next year's provincial election. Vision is the closest thing Vancouver has had to a civic wing of the provincial party, with most of its candidates being connected to the BC NDP except for Reimer (a former Green) and Dhaliwal (a federal Liberal organizer). Victoria also elected a left-leaning mayor and council (I have some problems with what passes for the civic left in Victoria, but that's a whole other discussion). Then again, I might be reading too much into things, as Vision is a new party that's brought a lot of people into the political process and managed to get its vote out in a year of poor turnout, while the NPA was demoralized and divided following Sullivan's flaky tenure and his ouster by Ladner.
It never hurts to forget that elections are lost as much as they're won. This election wasn't so much a strong endorsement of Vision as it was a rejection of the NPA's record under Sullivan. Ladner and the other NPA councillors voted in unison with the mayor, and Ladner expressed no public dissent until earlier this year, so voters could be forgiven for disregarding the fact that Sullivan wasn't running again.
And who can say that Vision will be immune from the problems of the last two councils? While the Vision caucus will probably be cohesive, Robertson's preference for big-picture ideals over policy specifics could cause him to flame out in the way that Campbell and Sullivan did. However, I'm hopeful that Robertson has more of a practical side than we've seen in the campaign. And he does at least seem to be less of an egomaniac than either of the last two mayors. |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Senator Larry was punditifying on CTV Gnus tonight, and he seemed quite begrudging -- no, even beyond that, absolutely petulant -- about Robertson's and Vision's win. And I figure anything that pisses off Senator Larry has to be at least partly good. _________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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Admiral Awesome still stirring, not shaken

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1030
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Obscurantist, just to add to your point about diversity Barnes is black, so Vision has pretty much everyone covered, to at least some degree. I think the diversity of their slate, and to a lesser degree COPE's (which has a lot less people, so it was harder), helped them. Though to be fair to the NPA they fielded a pretty diverse slate as well, so obviously this wasn't a decisive factor. This is comparing apples to oranges, but the federal NDP slate in the Metro Vancouver was pretty much all white, which doesn't help in a region that's 37% visible minority.
Hephaestion, The more I hear from Larry Campbell, the less I like. Granted, I realized long ago (though not soon enough) that he's a bit of an egomaniac so it's better he's on "another team." But I have to wonder what's up with him because he's been extremely erratic for the last few years. He kept singing the praises of Raymond Louie and claiming that he'd be a great mayor once Jim Green lost, and Louie became the ipso facto "leader of the opposition", but then during the Vision nomination contest he went and endorsed the long time NPA Parks Board Commissioner Al DeGenova instead (who ended up finishing a distant third).
In fact that reminds me of why I had reservations voting for Geoff Meggs, who worked for Campbell and Glen Clark. I know guilt by association isn't cool, but it does raise a few eyebrows, especially since city council has a tendency to be less disciplined and more individual focused than higher levels of government. Meggs said all the right things during the campaign, and presented himself as a solidly progressive individual. But supposing this council degenerates into infighting like the last three he'll be one of the people Robertson will need to keep an eye on.
As for Robertson, I've been a fan of his for a while. But I think his style is more suited to civic politics than provincial ones. He's more of a conciliatory leader, and though he tried to play the theatrical role required of him on the provincial scene he never really developed much of a profile outside of his riding. He never really rose through the ranks of the opposition caucus either, which became dominated by the "good old boys." I think the conciliatory tone he set, within the party, and with COPE and the Greens, is a welcome change from the way that COPE light and Classic treated each other, and the way that their barely concealed contempt did them in during the 2005 election. This is not to say that rifts aren't going to appear, but I think it's less of a gurantee. Besides, from an idelogical perspective I think Robertson sits within the mainstream of the centre-left NDP which is good since it's not too far from the centrist position of some elements of Vision and the more leftist position of COPE (though Woodsworth and Cadman aren't as far left as Bass or Louis by any stretch of the imagination). With Campbell, the problem the COPEsters should've seen, was that he was an unknown. They probably thought that was good, since he could say he was "centrist" and it would distract from COPE's strongly left wing reputation that was off putting to centrist voters. But it also meant that he and the more left-wing members were going to have problems. And since he and those like Louis weren't very pragmatic this ate at the party more than it would've otherwise. That doesn't seem to be an issue with Robertson.
Just one last note too, what was up with Marty Zlotnik's re-election signs? They were pretty tacky. I'm not saying they affected his campaign either way, but they were odd. I can't find a picture of them online, but basically everyone else (other NPAers, Vision, COPE) had standard run of the mill signs. He had these huge ones that were at least twice as big as your average "large" sign with his name in huge block letters, with red maple leafs and a blue background. It was a little strange, seeing as he was only a one-term Parks Board Commissioner seeking re-election. |
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